PHOENIX RISING

Thank you all for your comments on my last post.

In fact, this post started out as something of a reply to some comments left on my last post, so please feel free to read it and the comments afterward.

I should know better than to post such controversial statements and then expect to take a leave of absence from blogging.

In all truthfulness, I have stopped by a few of my favorite spots, as usual, so I haven’t been as absent as I probably need to be.

Thanks Timbob, for your comments. Yes, when our itinerary doesn’t line up with His, then we have a real issue, and something has to give.
The power of tradition goes much deeper than we realize,…although it, tradition, is not always a bad thing.
Brushing our teeth, cleaning our houses, going to work, paying the bills….
One could say that they do these things in a ‘traditional’ manner (maybe even ‘religiously’ etc…) so I don’t want anyone to think that I am simply opposed to ‘tradition’ in and of itself.
But anyway, thanks for your comments here, and I agree, that there is much of our own itinerary which needs putting away.

Peace to you, my brother!

Marie, I have been equally blessed by our relationship here on the web and hope to stay in touch with you and Jerald. Your last email was very encouraging to me. I will pray for Alan’s situation, all though it sounds like he is smack dab in the middle of the will of God.

Peace!

Brother Phil,
I am worried that I have again (possibly) been misunderstood.
Everything that you just quoted, were quotes lifted directly from Franks book, so, please don’t think that they were aimed directly at you. They were not, although I do agree with them.

Rather than go ‘point for point’ at this time, Phil, I’m just going to say a few (hundred) things for the time being, and then maybe, if you are interested, we could pick this discussion up at a later time.

Amen. Who we read. Yes, and you’re right, we shouldn’t only read who we agree with.

Concerning the synagogue:
I am totally convinced that Jesus taught in the synagogue because it was a culturally Jewish thing to do, not because there was anything divine about the synagogue system itself.

Nowhere in the old testament will you find God establishing the synagogue, and you won’t find it in the N.T. either.

As mentioned in the article above, I can find no ‘divine decree’ for it’s (the synagogues) existence.

Just because we find Jesus, Paul and others preaching in the synagogue doesn’t indicate that the synagogue was some type of shadow of the church. It simply means that the Lord operates within the context of the times, circumstances and events of reality.

Consider Paul going to Mars Hill and reasoning with the Pagan philosophers there.
Surely this doesn’t mean that we should try to recreate and modify this philosophical environment every Sunday so that we have historical and ‘biblical’ precedent for doing so.

The synagogue was simply the place where the law was being taught, so what better place for Jesus to come in and begin revealing Himself to being the fulfillment of that law?

It is the Lords way to meet men where they are at. He sees nothing intrinsically ’spiritual’ about a synagogue or the way in which it operates.

The point of it all was to show that Jesus was, indeed, Savior and Messiah, fulfilling the scriptures.

At best, I would say that the synagogues were used of God because that is where and how men explored and sought to teach the scriptures. They were mans institutions, not God’s, but, yes, God is sovereign.

God is quite the revolutionary, you know. He has a way of entering the scene, disrupting mans programs, and revealing the Truth.

God, in Christ, is a Liberator, and I believe that it is His way to move us further and further away from men’s religious concepts while moving us into deeper communion with Himself.

“So what about elders, and servants, and pastors, and teachers, etc? Weren’t all of these functions in the synagogue?” (reasonable question)

I think the truth is that these functions exist,… period.

Haven’t you ever known someone who met all of the qualifications in I Tim., but who wasn’t ‘ordained’ to some office? And usually because they just aren’t interested in all the hoopla involved with so called ‘church’.

Surely you have known a teacher…

I mean…

That’s just what they do! They are gifted to teach!!

And a pastor? I’m not totally sure that I even know what a pastor really is. After all, that little word is only mentioned ONE TIME in the entire New Testament. (And ironically enough, today it has become the central theme of much of Christianity).

My guess is that a pastor is one who really cares for the Lords people, who wants to see that they are provided for, and protected, nourished and raised up into being more than just ‘soul savers’, and more, so much more, than passive pew sitters!!!

But how many times is the word ‘brothers’ mentioned?

Hmmmmmmmmmm………

I believe 100% that it is impossible to know what an authentic church meeting is if it is not related to a group of people who live within a reasonable context of community.

I know that is an extreme statement, and it may very well not be saying what I am really trying to say here….but I think you know what I mean.

I’m talking primarily about brother (and sister)- hood.

Yes, we can have deep connections ‘outside of time and space’. I fully believe and experience that myself, but there is something divine about genuine community life where one is able to DISCOVER who and WHY elders are ‘elders’ and marvel at how they just don’t really care about wearing that title.

Who are the teachers?

Stick around long enough, and teachers will simply be known. Etc…

Jesus, Paul, and the other disciples maneuvered, first off, where God sent them.
‘They are talking about me in there. Go tell them the truth’.
Not so much, ‘I appreciate the system that they are using and expect it to be carried over for all time…, so go morph that system into my church’.
In fact, the more one reads through the new testament, the more we begin to see the fact that ‘God doesn’t dwell in temples made with human hands’, thus making it more and more obvious that temples, synagogues, etc… are really quite unnecessary.

Score 1 for liberty!!

FREEDOM FROM THE OLD WAYS OF HAVING TO MEET IN A SPECIAL PLACE TO WORSHIP GOD OR PARTAKE IN THE MINISTRY OF HIS PEOPLE

‘They met daily from house to house…’

“Okay, I agree. It’s not so much about the buildings, but my concern is with the pattern of operation”(reasonable concern)

Well, if that is your concern, then I would say that a good place to start would be in I Corinthians 14, particularly the area concerning the full participation of the entire group.

Paul ENCOURAGED that ALL present in the church meetings share something, and to even prophecy.
Score 2 for liberty!!

“You! Yes you!! The one who was formerly alienated from God by your wicked works, and sinful ways!! You, who have been redeemed by Jesus the blood of Jesus Christ, and who possess the very Spirit of Christ!!! The one who, according to all those who do not believe in the work of Jesus the Messiah, should have no right to speak…..

SPEAK!!

SHARE YOUR REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE ENTIRE BODY!!!

BRING YOUR SONG OR YOUR POEM, OR YOUR WORDS OF FAITH!!! AND HELP TO BUILD UP THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST!!!!

PROPHECY!!!!”

In other words, the Lord knows, and so do we, that we just don’t need all that hullabaloo that much of today’s ‘Christianity’ has to offer, including it’s modern system of operation.

What the church needs, primarily, is a living revelation of Jesus Christ, and nowhere do we find, in scripture, or anywhere else, that this is to be the product or result of the typical Sunday morning routine that is offered to the Lords people on any given Sunday.

Besides ALL of this, Phil, I truly am no scholar or church history expert, and therefore do not have the experience nor first hand research to answer all of the questions that could be asked about these things, but I do believe that Frank Viola, and many others have discovered some fresh insight as to the roots of our modern church practices. It is very well researched and footnoted.

I will close in saying this; I would recommend that you get the book, read the entire thing for yourself and then argue where you feel they are wrong, specifically with historical support.

Beyond all of this….

So far beyond it all….

I stand with you in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior!

Your Brother,

Johnny

The Greeting

Prayer or Scripture Reading

The Song Service

The Announcements

The Offering

The Sermon

After Sermon Pastoral Prayer

Altar Call

More Singing (led by choir or worship team)

The Lords Supper

Prayer for the sick

The Benediction

“With some minor rearrangements, this is the unbroken liturgy that 345 million Protestants across the globe observe religiously week after week. And for the last five hundred years, few people have questioned it.”

We do everything by the book!?

“The first century church meeting was not patterned after the Jewish synagogue services as some recent authors have suggested. Instead, it was totally unique to the culture.

We have little evidence to suggest that the first Christians attempted to perpetuate the style of the synagogue

Moreover, the Jewish synagogue was a human invention. Some scholars believe that it was created during the Babylonian captivity (sixth century BC), when worship at the Jerusalem Temple was impossible; others believe they emerged in the third or second century BC with the rise of the Pharisees. Even though the synagogue became the center of Jewish life after the Jerusalem Temple was destroyed in AD 70, there is no Old Testament (or divine) precedent for such an institution. “

{See Banks, Paul’s Idea of Community, 106-108, 122-117; Bradshaw, Origins of Christian Worship, 13-15, 27-29, 159-160, 186; Joel B. Green, ed., Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity, 1992), 781-782; Alfred Edersheim, The Life and Time of Jesus the Messiah (Mclean, VA: McDonald Publishing Company, 1883), 431.}

Where did it our present order of worship come from?

It has it’s basic roots in the medieval Catholic Mass.

“According to Will Durant, the Catholic Mass was “based partly on the Judaic Temple service, partly on Greek mystery rituals of purification, vicarious sacrifice, and participation.”{Durant, Caesar and Christ, 599}

How are the protestant models different from the Catholic?

There’s really not that much difference. Really.

Okay. Here’s the deal.

I’m not a ‘book reviewer’ (like this guy, or this guy) but I am an avid reader. This is truly a very insightful and informative book. As is everything else that I have read by Mr. Viola.

I have met him on a couple of different occasions and sat down to dinner with him and a handful of other saints in Jacksonville, Florida.

I was in a meeting where he and a couple of other brothers laid hands on a sister who was battling cancer, and all of the saints gathered around her and were praying for her healing and weeping in the presence of the Spirit of God, and the last time I heard she was healed and was doing well.

That was the most incredible church meeting that I have ever been to. It was simple, yet it was genuine and the Spirit of God was moving powerfully.

I guess that I say all of this because I want you all to know that I believe that Frank is a very sincere and very gifted brother in the Lord, and that he truly is called to the Lords work.  I believe that the Lord is using Frank, and others in this day to re-establish the church of Jesus Christ.

Sure, the Lord can use a donkey to speak His Word, and likewise He can utilize a religious system which is rooted in Pagan tradition to speak to His people,…but do you think that is the Lords perfect will? I do not, and furthermore, I do not feel comfortable resting in that place.

I encourage you to read this book.

Granted, it is very ‘matter of fact’ and this can be taken the wrong way if you are looking for something ‘warm and fuzzy’ , so if you do buy it, just read it for the information that it provides as that is exactly how, I believe, it is meant to be read.

“Just the facts…” 

Well, before I go, I want to list the chapter titles here to give you an idea of what the book covers:

1. HAVE WE REALLY BEEN DOING IT BY THE BOOK?

2. THE CHURCH BUILDING

3. THE ORDER OF WORSHIP

4. THE SERMON

5. THE PASTOR

6. SUNDAY MORNING COSTUMES

7. MINISTERS OF MUSIC

8. TITHING AND CLERGY SALARIES

9. BAPTISM AND THE LORDS SUPPER

10. CHRISTIAN EDUCATION

11. REAPPROACHING THE NEW TESTAMENT

12. A SECOND GLANCE AT THE SAVIOR

There is also a pretty extensive ‘Q&A’ section with Frank Viola and George Barna.This section explains way more than my little book review here, so I encourage you to give it a look.

One last thing concerning Mr. Viola and Pagan Christianity. Here is a link to a page dedicate to answering some of the most common objections to the book. I certainly recommend you read through it as it paints a much better picture of the message that Frank is trying to get out to the Lords people.

**************************************************************************

So what else?

Well, I’m on my way out of the blogiverse for a while. I may post links or videos from time to time, but at least for now, it is time to get back to real Life.

I wish to thank each and every one of you for coming by, listening to what I have to say, and conversing with me.

Thank you also for your continuous words of love and encouragement in the Lord.

And to some of you: Thanks just for reading!

There is so much that I want to say, but I know that, at least for now, the Lord is calling me to just be quiet.

I love you all, and hope to meet you all face to face, if not in the here and now, then perhaps in the sweet by and by.

Your Brother and Friend,

Johnny

As I ponder some of the conversations going on in the blogiverse and other places, I am faced with this question: How do those with so many differences unify?

How is this manifest on a practical level among the various churches?

Oh boy.

There are actually volumes that could be written to provide a solid and clear context for this question, but at this time, I am just writing from my heart.

We all know that the answer is Jesus Christ and His Spirit.

The fact is that if we posses the Spirit of Christ, then we already possess the unity.

Division cannot truly take place in the Spirit.

The Spirit can be quenched but it cannot be divided.

Christ is not divided.

So what is it that divides us?

We know that it is true that genuine reconciliation is possible only in Christ Jesus, and that He is our only hope.

But what does that mean? How does that work? What is the way?

Perhaps He or others before us have given us some direction.

I have one word for it.

This word is not only for you, but it is for me as well.

It is for all who want to keep their hands on the Lords work. It is for all who would desire to lord over God’s people.

This is the hardest word you will ever hear, yet it is the only way.

It is for all who consider themselves to be something, who esteem themselves as being some kind of ‘pillar’ within the church.

It is for all who consider themselves to be too enlightened to gather together with the Lords people.

It is for those who have been hurt and who are wounded by the wicked venom of dead religion.

It is for those who have caused that hurting.

It is for those who have committed heinous sins against their brother, neighbor, or  fellow man (against God).

It is for those who have become judgmental.

Actually, it is really a word for everyone.

What is that word?

You know what? I want to hear what you have to say about that.

While I take a little break before going into the next chapter of Pagan Christianity, I believe that it is time to just take a few moments and share some things from my heart.

At this present moment, my spirit is raised, as I had the most precious benefit of working, today, with a brother who lives in the neighborhood.

It was really great hearing this brother share his heart about some things that were important to him…, things concerning the Lord, life, church,…everything.

Today our conversation just seemed to be a little more focused,…a little more real if you will.

He was stressing the need for brothers and sisters to feel safe to share their hearts and feelings as well as their insights and convictions.

He spoke about how we need to submit ourselves to one another, and be willing to hear what is being said, and even be willing to take criticism from one another.

He is right.

Fact is, many of us aren’t very good at being gentle. I really don’t know where I am on the ‘meekness’ spectrum, but my guess is on a scale from one to ten, I’m maybe a three (but probably a one).

Lot’s of rough edges still.

The phone rang this evening and it was a sister, whom is new to the neighborhood, inviting my daughters to her daughters birthday party. My heart was lightened just a bit as I realized that, even though we don’t know each other that well, she was willing to invite my family into their lives.

Another phone call, and it was a brother telling me that he would do whatever he could in order to help out with a certain situation that we are facing as a family ( don’t let your imagination go to far here, it’s nothing out of the ordinary, just private).

I felt cared for.

And then his wife calls about 45 minutes later asking me if I can bring her two sons home for school on a certain day of the week.

I felt needed.

In the midst of a subculture that is so hung up on trying to be spiritual, or knowledgeable, or even biblical, I am coming to realize something more and more.

God is not merely about God. In fact, a good way to express Gods nature would be ‘Self for others’ (thanks brother Grubb).

I’m not talking about an ‘all about me‘ gospel. Rather, I’m talking about a ‘we are one’ gospel.

God is for us, and likewise, we are for God. But the way this is expressed most truly is when we love one another.

So what else is on my mind?

That I need to leave people alone. I need to let people just do what they want to do without feeling responsible for fixing them. I wish that I were a more accepting person, one who is better at making that distinction between the sin and the sinner.

I need to learn how to shine light without poking someone in the eye with it.

I also wish that I were more honest and open about my thoughts and feelings, but in a more positive way.

And there are other things too…

I wish that everyone else desired these things as well, and that we would all actually grow into them.

I wish that we weren’t all so busy chasing dreams and illusions, but instead simply following the will of God, loving Him and one another as ourselves.

I wish we weren’t all so hung up on who we think we are, but instead begin to just be who we really are.

I’m tired of being a rock.

I want to be a gem.

Before you read any further, there is something that I want to say to you, something that the author of this book has stated on more than one occasion:

If you are at peace with the way you practice your church life, do not read any further.

Furthermore, If you decide to leave after being exposed to this information, please do so quietly and peacefully.

The second chapter of this informative little book takes a look at the history of the church building.

Now without giving too much away, I do want to reassure you that I understand that most of us totally understand that we, the believers in Christ Jesus and followers of The Way, are what truly constitutes ‘the church’.

I am certain that the majority of those who are reading this post right now fully understand the difference between the meeting place and the meeting people.

That said…

I also understand the need to take a closer look at why we do the things we do to see if there isn’t something there that needs to be brought to light.

After laying out a strong case that the origin of the church building has it’s roots in the pagan influences which Constantine continued to hold so dear (So dear, in fact, that he “still functioned as the high priest of paganism”* nearly until his dying day!), he goes on to explain, basically, how the atmosphere of the church building (and it’s set-up), just isn’t conducive to the free roam of the Spirit.

Furthermore, to suppose that the church building and the typical modern form of church practice was a carry over from old testament times would be in contradiction to what we find within the new testament scriptures.

Of course Jesus went to synagogue, as He lived and operated within the old testament paradigm. However, He was also ushering in a new Way, Truth and Life, which would change everything!In Franks words, “The Old Mosaic economy of sacred priests, sacred buildings, sacred rituals, and sacred objects has been forever destroyed by the cross of Jesus Christ.”

This is true!

All of these things were a type of Christ, a mere picture of the true Fulfillment.

From the time of Pentecost forward, the apostles, especially Paul, was busy trying to get that old system out of the Lords people. If anything, our church practice today should seem even less like the old testament ways than it did in the first century!

A simple reading of Paul’s letter to the Galatians, and the letter to the Hebrews will make this crystal clear!!

Today, we are the temples made without hands!

Today, we, ALL OF US, are the Royal Priesthood!!

Today, WE ARE THE VERY BODY OF CHRIST!!!

Now I know that there is nothing inherently evil about a building. In fact, having a big place to meet can be quite a blessing to the body of Christ. Furthermore, I am no longer, personally, troubled by the pagan origins of the church building, but rather my issues have more to do with the financial burdens that such a thing can put on the Lords people and the ways in which the buildings are (or are not) used.

I sincerely believe that the existence and common usage of church buildings does typically discourage genuine Christian community among the saints.

How?

The Lords people just don’t seem to get together all that much for the most part, and when they do, they typically do not gather nor function in the way they were designed to.

Can you imagine what it could be like if, instead of gathering together once or twice a week in the ‘buildings’ the brothers and sisters split up to fellowship and meet together in one another’s homes? What if we all even went so far as to each bring something to ‘the table’, a psalm, a song, a poem, a teaching, a revelation, etc…

Now this mode of operation wouldn’t cater to the whims of your typical ‘pastor’, but it would rather put the headship and authority back where it belongs.

In Jesus Christ.

I would say that is a pretty important matter…., wouldn’t you?

What if we realized that we, indeed, are much more free in the Lord than our current mindsets and practices would have us to believe?

It’s in your new testament.

It is your birth right as a new creation in Christ.

It is not a new idea at all, but rather a very scriptural one.

Honestly, I do not know why so many men and women of God, especially those who would seem to be ‘leaders’, choose to ignore this unmistakably vital aspect concerning the body of Christ.

I have my assumptions…

But now I am moving into other things, and this post is primarily about the church building.

Well, I really do want to tell you more about this, and I’m sure that I will eventually, but I really would rather you just pick up the book and read it for your self. It’s worth it.

Peace to you all (as much as is possible),

~Johnny

* Gonzalez: Story of Christianity, 123

In the first chapter of Pagan Christianity: Exploring the Roots of our Church Practices? a new release by authors Frank Viola and George Barna.

This book begins with a question which helps us to take a more careful look at many of the things that have  simply been handed down to us under the name of Christianity, particularly those things related to our modern church practices.

And what is that question?

“Are we really doing it by the book?”

Good question, and one that I, personally, have struggled with from time to time, especially when I did attend ‘church’ as usual.

After revisiting this question, I am struck by a dilemma that, to this day, I do not fully understand.

Does ‘Doing it right’, really matter? After all, this is the same as doing it by the book,

… isn’t it?

And if so, what does that mean?

I know that in my mind, when I consider what it means to ‘do it right’, a couple of things come to mind:

Legalistic Thinking

‘Doing it right’, to me, rings so heavily of the voice of the pharisee, the one who is bent on making sure that everyone is (not) measuring up to the divine standard.

When doing it right is being considered from this perspective, it is typically judgmental, critical, and is usually based in and stems out from ones own sense of insecurity.

Authenticity

Ahhh. Now this one I can appreciate.

Is it real?

Is it the genuine article?

As often as this question arises concerning the things of the world, how much more vital is this question when it comes to things of the Lord?

It is from this second category that Frank and George begin their exploration, leading the reader on a journey of truth which is illuminated by both the holy scriptures as well as documented historical research.

I look forward to reading chapter two which is headed up by a quote by Alexander Schmemann, Twentieth-Century Eastern Orthodox Priest, Teacher and Writer,

“In the process of replacing the old religions, Christianity became a religion.”

In Christ,

~Johnny

As I mentioned in a comment on my last post, I plan to review the newly revised book: Pagan Christianity?> Exploring the Roots of our Church Practices by Frank Viola and George Barna.

My hope is to read and comment on this book one chapter at a time (without giving away too much…), as I believe there is much to be learned from a work such as this.

I read the original version about five years ago and was blown away by the conclusions presented by the author concerning the origins of much of our contemporary church practice.

Going into this review, and while considering many other things I have said and written in the past concerning these kinds of things, I feel as if I need to say a couple of things.

I am a rebel. A ‘maverick’ (NO..I never claimed that description for myself!)

This particular character trait has caused more problems than it has ever fixed and it is not something that I boast in as if it were some sort of virtue. It is just the way I am. I am the one who will stand up to anything or anyone that I believe is not right. Especially for others. Especially for those who are oppressed.

My Lord came wielding a sword. ..but so did Peter…and sometimes I can’t tell which one I model the most.

Now I realize fully that the Lord is working in me, disciplining me, teaching me, showing me, guiding me, and loving me through this weakness.

Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!

But He does want me to speak the truth.

IN LOVE.

And this, by His grace and mercy, I hope to do.

I ask that you keep this in mind as we go on in this journey…

~Johnny

It’s not about rebellion.

It’s about reality.