Thank you all for your comments on my last post.
In fact, this post started out as something of a reply to some comments left on my last post, so please feel free to read it and the comments afterward.
I should know better than to post such controversial statements and then expect to take a leave of absence from blogging.
In all truthfulness, I have stopped by a few of my favorite spots, as usual, so I haven’t been as absent as I probably need to be.
Thanks Timbob, for your comments. Yes, when our itinerary doesn’t line up with His, then we have a real issue, and something has to give.
The power of tradition goes much deeper than we realize,…although it, tradition, is not always a bad thing.
Brushing our teeth, cleaning our houses, going to work, paying the bills….
One could say that they do these things in a ‘traditional’ manner (maybe even ‘religiously’ etc…) so I don’t want anyone to think that I am simply opposed to ‘tradition’ in and of itself.
But anyway, thanks for your comments here, and I agree, that there is much of our own itinerary which needs putting away.
Peace to you, my brother!
Marie, I have been equally blessed by our relationship here on the web and hope to stay in touch with you and Jerald. Your last email was very encouraging to me. I will pray for Alan’s situation, all though it sounds like he is smack dab in the middle of the will of God.
Peace!
Brother Phil,
I am worried that I have again (possibly) been misunderstood.
Everything that you just quoted, were quotes lifted directly from Franks book, so, please don’t think that they were aimed directly at you. They were not, although I do agree with them.
Rather than go ‘point for point’ at this time, Phil, I’m just going to say a few (hundred) things for the time being, and then maybe, if you are interested, we could pick this discussion up at a later time.
Amen. Who we read. Yes, and you’re right, we shouldn’t only read who we agree with.
Concerning the synagogue:
I am totally convinced that Jesus taught in the synagogue because it was a culturally Jewish thing to do, not because there was anything divine about the synagogue system itself.
Nowhere in the old testament will you find God establishing the synagogue, and you won’t find it in the N.T. either.
As mentioned in the article above, I can find no ‘divine decree’ for it’s (the synagogues) existence.
Just because we find Jesus, Paul and others preaching in the synagogue doesn’t indicate that the synagogue was some type of shadow of the church. It simply means that the Lord operates within the context of the times, circumstances and events of reality.
Consider Paul going to Mars Hill and reasoning with the Pagan philosophers there.
Surely this doesn’t mean that we should try to recreate and modify this philosophical environment every Sunday so that we have historical and ‘biblical’ precedent for doing so.
The synagogue was simply the place where the law was being taught, so what better place for Jesus to come in and begin revealing Himself to being the fulfillment of that law?
It is the Lords way to meet men where they are at. He sees nothing intrinsically ’spiritual’ about a synagogue or the way in which it operates.
The point of it all was to show that Jesus was, indeed, Savior and Messiah, fulfilling the scriptures.
At best, I would say that the synagogues were used of God because that is where and how men explored and sought to teach the scriptures. They were mans institutions, not God’s, but, yes, God is sovereign.
God is quite the revolutionary, you know. He has a way of entering the scene, disrupting mans programs, and revealing the Truth.
God, in Christ, is a Liberator, and I believe that it is His way to move us further and further away from men’s religious concepts while moving us into deeper communion with Himself.
“So what about elders, and servants, and pastors, and teachers, etc? Weren’t all of these functions in the synagogue?” (reasonable question)
I think the truth is that these functions exist,… period.
Haven’t you ever known someone who met all of the qualifications in I Tim., but who wasn’t ‘ordained’ to some office? And usually because they just aren’t interested in all the hoopla involved with so called ‘church’.
Surely you have known a teacher…
I mean…
That’s just what they do! They are gifted to teach!!
And a pastor? I’m not totally sure that I even know what a pastor really is. After all, that little word is only mentioned ONE TIME in the entire New Testament. (And ironically enough, today it has become the central theme of much of Christianity).
My guess is that a pastor is one who really cares for the Lords people, who wants to see that they are provided for, and protected, nourished and raised up into being more than just ‘soul savers’, and more, so much more, than passive pew sitters!!!
But how many times is the word ‘brothers’ mentioned?
Hmmmmmmmmmm………
I believe 100% that it is impossible to know what an authentic church meeting is if it is not related to a group of people who live within a reasonable context of community.
I know that is an extreme statement, and it may very well not be saying what I am really trying to say here….but I think you know what I mean.
I’m talking primarily about brother (and sister)- hood.
Yes, we can have deep connections ‘outside of time and space’. I fully believe and experience that myself, but there is something divine about genuine community life where one is able to DISCOVER who and WHY elders are ‘elders’ and marvel at how they just don’t really care about wearing that title.
Who are the teachers?
Stick around long enough, and teachers will simply be known. Etc…
Jesus, Paul, and the other disciples maneuvered, first off, where God sent them.
‘They are talking about me in there. Go tell them the truth’.
Not so much, ‘I appreciate the system that they are using and expect it to be carried over for all time…, so go morph that system into my church’.
In fact, the more one reads through the new testament, the more we begin to see the fact that ‘God doesn’t dwell in temples made with human hands’, thus making it more and more obvious that temples, synagogues, etc… are really quite unnecessary.
Score 1 for liberty!!
FREEDOM FROM THE OLD WAYS OF HAVING TO MEET IN A SPECIAL PLACE TO WORSHIP GOD OR PARTAKE IN THE MINISTRY OF HIS PEOPLE
‘They met daily from house to house…’
“Okay, I agree. It’s not so much about the buildings, but my concern is with the pattern of operation”(reasonable concern)
Well, if that is your concern, then I would say that a good place to start would be in I Corinthians 14, particularly the area concerning the full participation of the entire group.
Paul ENCOURAGED that ALL present in the church meetings share something, and to even prophecy.
Score 2 for liberty!!
“You! Yes you!! The one who was formerly alienated from God by your wicked works, and sinful ways!! You, who have been redeemed by Jesus the blood of Jesus Christ, and who possess the very Spirit of Christ!!! The one who, according to all those who do not believe in the work of Jesus the Messiah, should have no right to speak…..
SPEAK!!
SHARE YOUR REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE ENTIRE BODY!!!
BRING YOUR SONG OR YOUR POEM, OR YOUR WORDS OF FAITH!!! AND HELP TO BUILD UP THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST!!!!
PROPHECY!!!!”
In other words, the Lord knows, and so do we, that we just don’t need all that hullabaloo that much of today’s ‘Christianity’ has to offer, including it’s modern system of operation.
What the church needs, primarily, is a living revelation of Jesus Christ, and nowhere do we find, in scripture, or anywhere else, that this is to be the product or result of the typical Sunday morning routine that is offered to the Lords people on any given Sunday.
Besides ALL of this, Phil, I truly am no scholar or church history expert, and therefore do not have the experience nor first hand research to answer all of the questions that could be asked about these things, but I do believe that Frank Viola, and many others have discovered some fresh insight as to the roots of our modern church practices. It is very well researched and footnoted.
I will close in saying this; I would recommend that you get the book, read the entire thing for yourself and then argue where you feel they are wrong, specifically with historical support.
Beyond all of this….
So far beyond it all….
I stand with you in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior!
Your Brother,
Johnny
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